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Re: AM: Value of user demographics?

To:     Andrew Forbes <>
Subject:     Re: AM: Value of user demographics?
From:     Maurice Boissiere <>
Date:     Fri, 09 Jan 1998 17:55:41 -0500
CC:     Fleck <>,
Organization:     Consumer Insites
References:     <01bd1d19$f1027560$3094efce@BOUNTY.ITPO.COM>

Congradulations on the longest thread I've yet to see on the AM list.

After reading through the threads, I understand that you will provide
demographics of visitors based on their IP Address. Assuming this
possibility given what little I know about proxies and firewalls (not to
mention caching), I think the value of that data can be viewed by
looking at Relevent Knowledge's success.

As you may know, Relevent Knowledge provides statistics on Web traffic.
In addition, they can provide fairly accurate demographic information
(age, Income, gender and education) about your site and your
competitors. They do this by monitoring the a statiscally significant
sample size of users in their pannel. So, if your service essentially
provides the same service using log files then they are a decent proxy
for determining value. You might look at their pricing.

You must also ask if you're proposed service is of greater or equal
value to existing traffic analysis services and tools (Relevant
Knowledge, I/Pro, NetCount, Art Technology Group, Andromedia, etc.)
Consider that you may not capture all users, and with the increasing
popularity of proxies and firewalls, you may capture less on average
then a Relevant Knowledge. Also, you can not capture competitive
information (since you are basing it off a site's logs) which when
offered as a bundled analysis increases a customers swithcing cost.
Lastly, you would have to establish yourself as a credible auditor in
order for advertising driven sites to be able to justify the purchase.
The advertisers have to beleive the traffic and demographic assertions.

Does your concept differ from my understanding (converting IP Address to
Profiles based on traffic/log files.) If this a faily decent
comprehension, then how will you differentiate and establish a
competitive advantage against increasing growing brands that are
themselves going through a consolidation.

Maurice Boissiere
Consumer Insites

Andrew Forbes wrote:
> Fleck:
> You said:
> >The only accurate way to capture demographic info from an
> >individual user is to have them register (either directly on the
> >site or through a network like firefly).
> I must respectfully disagree.  There are ways to ascertain the
> demographics behind the IP address, but as I'm yet unfunded
> I have no desire to discuss them here.
> If you want to know what my plans are, I'd be happy to explain
> them offline.
> So, for the moment, assuming that I could provide you, in a
> fashion that is accurate and auditable, the demographics
> behind the IP addresses visiting your site, what is it worth?
> One concession to your point:  I will not be able to provide
> the demographics behind all of your site visitors, but the
> hope is that the number I can convert will provide you with
> the ability to do statistically significent analysis of the
> demographics of your visitors e.g. television or radio
> style market segment/daypart reports.
> Andy Forbes
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fleck <>
> To: <>
> Date: Friday, January 09, 1998 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: AM: Value of user demographics?
> >Andrew:
> >
> >This discussion has meandered away from your original
> >question to discuss demographic issues at large.  This is
> >fine, we can all benefit from this knowledge, but I wanted to
> >come back and answer your original question, which was:
> >
> >"What would you be willing to pay for an IP address to
> >user demographics conversion service?"
> >
> >My answer is: nothing.
> >
> >Reason:  From reverse DNS resolution, there is no way to
> >capture demographic information.  If I do a reverse lookup
> >and find that somebody came from, that tells me
> >absolutely nothing about the individual user.  Even worse, if
> >someone comes from an ISP where a pool of IPs is
> >randomly assigned to dialup users, an IP is never definitely
> >"attached" to an individual.  (Note too, many companies
> >also assign IP addresses dynamically).
> >
> >The only accurate way to capture demographic info from an
> >individual user is to have them register (either directly on the
> >site or through a network like firefly).
> >
> >Hope my assessment is correct; perhaps a true techie can
> >chime in to confirm or refute.
> >
> >Fleck
> >.................................................................
> >Steve "Fleck" Fleckenstein
> >Morino Institute/ Netpreneur Program
> >
> >
> >
> >

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