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AM: RE[2]: RE: Fw: Telogy's list quandary

To:     ad-market@netpreneur.org
Subject:     AM: RE[2]: RE: Fw: Telogy's list quandary
From:     Terry Steichen <TerryS@DataFocus.com>
Date:     Wed, 25 Mar 1998 19:11:00 -0500
Cc:     "'David J. Simonetti'" <djs@projix.com>, Marilyn Daly <marilyndaly@earthlink.net>, "'marnowitz@morino.org'" <marnowitz@morino.org>

I think David is on the right track.  In the networking and software
business, the product manager MUST be rather technical - because one of
his/her key duties is interfacing with product development, and guiding
the product development planning.  At the same time, he/she must be VERY
focused on the market that the product is designed to address ('product'
here meaning a lot more than just the technology).

This really gets back to some of Brian's initial questions.  The issue
of whether to have one or two lists isn't really fundamental.  The more
important issues are things like (a) what are you trying to do with the
list, and (b) who are you targeting?

On the first one, lists and forums are generally appealing as a means
for creating a sense of online community to the participants.
Unfortunately,  this usually works best when it is sponsored by someone
OTHER than the vendor.  Lots of reasons for this - the book Net.Gain is
a great reference for this.

The second, and more fundamental question deals with defining your
market.  It is always tough to figure out just who makes the actual
buying decision and who influences this decision, and which one to focus
upon.  The (unfortunate or not) fact is that you MUST choose.  If you
try to target both you loose your focus with all kinds of consequences
(of a much more fundamental level than e-mail lists, etc.).  

Taking David's point of how Product Managers (who are probably the ones
you really want to target) are able to swim in both technology and
business/marketing 'pools', and given that you really can't control a
forum anyway (not if you want it to stay around and be popular), just do
it.  Create a list with the theme you want to see discussed, and let 'er
rip!.  The list participants may eventually decide there's a spit in
their interests, and if that occurs, you, being the kindly list manager
that I'm sure you will be, will accomodate them.  No sense in jumping
the gun, though.

Sorry to be so windy, but I didn't have time to think it through and
distill it down.  Good luck to Brian.

Terry Steichen
Product Manager
DataFocus, Inc.

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	David J. Simonetti [SMTP:djs@projix.com]
> Sent:	Wednesday, March 25, 1998 4:19 PM
> To:	owner-ad-market@netpreneur.org; Marilyn Daly;
> ad-market@netpreneur.org
> Subject:	AM: RE: Fw: Telogy's list quandary
> 
> I chimed in on this discussion earlier and I have read all of the
> other
> responses.  I agree with the all of them in theory, but I think one
> thing is
> being overlooked.  Product Managers in this business are not what I
> would
> consider classic "marketing types."  Most of them are
> engineers/developers
> who are more interested in working with people than with themselves.
> Thus
> they are more apt to be technically savvy than a "product marketer"
> who
> would be more interested in jargon and potential for TV air time
> purchases.
> To me, the real question is, how do you get both groups a
> proportionate
> amount of the information in each category?  You may decide that two
> lists
> are necessary but, the content will likely be the same not accounting
> for
> some skew toward the intended audience.
> 
> David
> 
> David J. Simonetti
> Projix Corporation
> 
> "What the hell's a Marketeer?"
> http://www.projix.com
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-ad-market@netpreneur.org
> > [mailto:owner-ad-market@netpreneur.org]On Behalf Of Marilyn Daly
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 12:45 PM
> > To: ad-market@netpreneur.org
> > Subject: AM: Fw: Telogy's list quandary
> >
> >
> > All,
> > I inadvertently sent my message below directly to Mitch rather than
> to the
> > group.  My apologies!
> > Although Brian's latest message appears at face value to negate my
> > suggested approach, I would encourage him to test run several
> specific
> > examples with his Product Manager to validate the one list approach.
> What
> > is important here is not just a difference in content for the two
> audiences
> > but a difference in how one communicates that content.  Business and
> > marketing "types"  have a very different way of communicating--they
> use
> > (and expect) marketing jargon, and appreciate a much more top down
> > approach.  My experience with technical "types" is exactly the
> > opposite--they hate jargon, want just the facts and understand a
> bottom up
> > rather than top down approach.
> > I know that one list/newsletter is much easier and less resource
> intensive
> > but I still believe that it will be less effective.
> > Marilyn Daly
> > GlobalFOCUS--Technology  Marketing & Public Relations
> > 12325 Old Canal Road
> > Potomac, MD 20854
> > tel: 301 996-8475
> > fax: 301 279-5715 (call first please)
> > web: home.earthlink.net/~marilyndaly
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Marilyn Daly <marilyndaly@earthlink.net>
> > > To: Mitch Arnowitz <marnowitz@morino.org>
> > > Subject: Re: Rosalind Resnick weighs in on Telogy's list quandary
> > > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 11:40 AM
> > >
> > > All,
> > > I have been reading your discussion with interest and must agree
> with
> > > Rolalind that a targeted approach (separate lists) would work
> best.  My
> > > experience is that the technical audience is put off by "marketing
> speak"
> > > and the more business-oriented audience is equally disinterested
> in the
> > > "bits and bytes".
> > >
> > > Of course, the problem with needing two lists raises the obvious
> issue
> of
> > > resources. I would opt for short but focused material for each
> group in
> > > order to keep them interested (and coming back for more!).
> > > Marilyn Daly
> > > GlobalFOCUS--Technology  Marketing & Public Relations
> > > 12325 Old Canal Road
> > > Potomac, MD 20854
> > > tel: 301 996-8475
> > > fax: 301 279-5715 (call first please)
> > > web: home.earthlink.net/~marilyndaly
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > > From: Mitch Arnowitz <marnowitz@morino.org>
> > > > To: ad-market <ad-market@netpreneur.org>
> > > > Subject: AM: Rosalind Resnick weighs in on Telogy's list
> quandary
> > > > Date: Tuesday, March 24, 1998 6:50 AM
> > > >
> > > > Brian, et al-
> > > >
> > > > Enclosed is Rolalind Resnick's response to our current (email)
> > > > list discussion. Rosalind runs the well known opt-in email list
> > > > company; NetCreations http://www.netcreations.com. Rosalind
> > > > is an expert in list marketing.
> > > >
> > > > It looks like Rosalind is in favor of Brian offering 2 lists, 1
> for
> > > > managers and 1 for engineers. Read the enclosed conversation
> > > > from the bottom up, Rosalind's comment is interesting.
> > > >
> > > > Are Brian's problems solved? Comments? Thoughts?
> > > > ______________________________
> > > > Mitch Arnowitz
> > > > mailto:marnowitz@morino.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rosalind replied:
> > > >
> > > > > As I said, I think the answer is to give the visitors to his
> site
> the
> >
> > > > > opportunity to choose which list they'd prefer to join. After
> all,
> > > > > it's the consumer who rules on the Net, not the marketer or
> content
> > > > > producer.
> > > >
> > > > > Rosalind
> > > >
> > > > > From:          "Mitch Arnowitz"
> > > > <marnowitz@morino.org>
> > > > > To:            <rosalind@netcreations.com>
> > > > > Subject:       Re: a question from Netpreneur Program's
> ad-marketing
> > > list
> > > > > Date:          Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:40:47 -0500
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks Rosalind.
> > > > >
> > > > > This Netpreneur wants to use the same list and needs to
> > > > > appeal to both engineers and decision makers. Any quick
> > > > > words on how he might do this?
> > > > >
> > > > > Mitch
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > > From: Rosalind Resnick <rosalind@netcreations.com>
> > > > > > To: Mitch Arnowitz <marnowitz@morino.org>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: a question from Netpreneur Program's
> ad-marketing
> list
> > > > > > Date: Monday, March 23, 1998 11:56 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks, Mitch! Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to
> me
> that
> >
> > > > > > your friend could simply set up two lists -- one for
> managers, the
> > > > > > other for engineers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Rosalind
> > > >
> > > >  Rosalind Resnick
> > > > > > President
> > > > > > NetCreations, Inc.
> > > > > > http://www.netcreations.com/
> > > > > > 212-625-1370 x207
> > > > > > Reinventing Direct Marketing on the Net
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > >  -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >  From: owner-ad-market@netpreneur.org
> > > > > > >  [mailto:owner-ad-market@netpreneur.org]On Behalf Of Brian
> Alpert
> > > > > > >  Sent: Friday, March 20, 1998 11:04 AM
> > > > > > > To: ad-market@netpreneur.org
> > > > > > >  Subject: AM: Email list content dilemma
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >  All --
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm on the verge of launching an email list to further my
> > > > > > > company's marketing goals (Telogy Networks, Inc.), and
> > > > > > > wanted to toss out a few ideas for feedback/discussion.
> > > > > > > Up front, I very much appreciate any time taken; I know
> > > > > > > how busy everyone is.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Telogy is an 'embedded software' company. It is esoteric,
> > > > > > > Voice over IP-related stuff, sold to manufacturers
> > > > > > > of network gear. Our products have gotten good coverage
> and
> > > > > > > our customer list likewise has good names attached.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The email list is permission-based, and will start small.
> > > > > > > I'm estimating about 100 names.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The list's goals are:
> > > > > > > - to help establish Telogy as a leader
> > > > > > > - increased visibility of the company/product name
> > > > > > > - promote useful feedback from participants
> > > > > > > - get leads/promote sales
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Our sales prospects are product/equipment managers:
> > > > > > > Sr. Mgrs. and up. The ultimate demographic for our
> > > > > > > list is healthy portions of those folks and the engineers
> > > > > > > that design these wonderful boxes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The engineers are the ones who make technology
> recommendations
> > > > > > > to mgt., so they're related to the sale.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Situation: most of those who've registered for the list
> are
> > > > > > > engineers. They are certainly welcome, but we haven't so
> far
> > > > > > > attracted half of our true prospects, the half that makes
> > > > > > > buying decisions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The groups have different content needs. The engineers are
> > > > > > > interested in technical product info, release notes,
> schedules,
> > > > > > > etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The managers are more concerned with business market
> issues:
> > > > > > > time to market, "build-in-house" vs. "buy-from-vendors,"
> > > > > > > their own product strengths/weaknesses.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My quandary: I want to keep the engineers interested, but
> > > > > > > also want to attract the managers. If it is all
> > marketing/business
> > > > > > > the engineers will leave in a swarm. If it is all-tech,
> > > > > > > the managers won't care.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, I think it is true that issues applying to one
> group
> > > > > > > are relevant to the other, would like to capitalize on
> that,
> > > > > > > and also would like to avoid maintaining multiple lists.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Given the limited attention these tools get, do you think
> it
> > > > > > > is viable to attempt to serve-up a content mix that
> appeals
> > > > > > > to both audiences?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you see risks in trying that? One that comes to mind
> > > > > > > is, if the list is perceived to lack focus or a coherent
> > > > > > > identity it may not be interesting to anyone.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What specific content-related steps might I take to avoid
> > > > > > > that?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you have general content-related recommendations for
> > > > > > > starting such a list?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > << File: David J. Simonetti.vcf >> 

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